Congratulations Huntsman.

[x]

Legacy Parkway is now doomed to failure.

On the surface the announcement that an agreement was reached to allow the Legacy High....er, Parkway to go ahead next year would seem like good news, right? I say no.

I see a huge issue with the decision to limit the speeds on the new road to 55 MPH. If you're a commuter and you have a choice between one road that in reality goes 70 MPH and another that's in almsot the same place that goes 60, which one are you going to choose? A very large percentage of the time the existing road is going to be faster, so why wouldn't you take it?

Apparently the environuts weren't satisfied with the incredible lengths that were already planned to protect and improve the habitat and they wanted more. Congratulations guys. You won.

[yellow]

I had the same concern about the speed limit... y would anyone take the slower road? I always leave my house late, and 55 isn't going to get me to work on time! Yep, that's me who just flew past 90MPH down I-15. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, my boss just has this thing about me being late.....
Anyway...

[Sailor]

The speed limit is what the enforcement makes it. Posted speed limit on I-15 through SLC is 65 but everyone goes 70, 75, and sometimes 80. I actually thought it was smart of the State to agree to a posted limit of 55, in order to get the tree-huggers to agree to build the road. Then they just tell the Highway Patroll not to pull anyone over unless they are doing in excess of 75.

One more point... Once the road is there, paved, and being used, it will be a small thing for them to raise the speed limit. The tree-huggers won't be able to make them plow it up and return it to wetlands because the speed limit was raised by 20 mph.

I wouldn't worry about the speed limit being a limiting factor.

[wallywombat]

How about this continuous flow intersection they are going to try on Bangerter. With as much attention some drivers pay to the road I can see the 3500 sout intersection becoming Utahs number one spot for accidents.

[admin]

It's sad when you think of all the tax payer money wasted on this

[talkradioaddict]

wallywombat said:

How about this continuous flow intersection they are going to try on Bangerter. With as much attention some drivers pay to the road I can see the 3500 sout intersection becoming Utahs number one spot for accidents.

Do they really think Utah drivers that go 15 MPH over the posted speed limit can do this? wallywombat... you are exactly right when you say this will be the #1 site for car accidents.
And to all you speeders.... leave 5 minutes earlier for hell sakes. You all think you are such great drivers at 80... well that is because you can't see the havoc you leave in your wake. Get a life and get up a little earlier. it really isn't hard to do. you just get out of bed when when mommy calls you instead of just hanging up and going back to sleep. And you know mommy calls you to wake you up. Don't deny it.
I hate speeders!

[x]

sailor said:

One more point... Once the road is there, paved, and being used, it will be a small thing for them to raise the speed limit. The tree-huggers won't be able to make them plow it up and return it to wetlands because the speed limit was raised by 20 mph.

The contract everyone agreed to is very specific. You can read it for yourself at www.udot.utah.gov/download.php/tid=181/Agreement_in_Principle__September.doc Make sure you rename the file as a PDF instead of a DOC, because the idiots at the DOT dont know the difference.

The final legalese should be very interesting.

[dolt]

The road is definitely needed on account of poor planning, at all levels. Especially the individual level. People choose to live out of Salt Lake County but, choose employment here.

I am a people hugger and am tired of seeing children weezing and elderly neighbors expiring on 'red burn' days.

So continue to jump into your gas guzzling SUZs and drive. Oh yes and do build that roaring fire after BBQing your meal.

This is a major metropolitan area where people persist in acting out their cowboy fantasies.

The months of inversion are just around the corner. You know, time to stew in our own juices.

[Sailor]

Question Dolt, If an elderly neighbor expires on a 'green burn' day, is it because of old age? But if they expire on a 'red burn' day, then it's the fault of the other people who drive big cars? I think that driving huge 'SUZ's' is wrong but the truth of the mater is that the SLC air is cleaner now than it was 10, 20, 30, even 50 years ago. Go read the D-news archives about the coal inversions that were in the valley in the 1930's. Or the ton's of sulfer dioxide that was pumped into the air by the smelter in the 70's. I think you have been paying too much attention to Rocky Anderson.

[dolt]

Yes, it was bad when people burned coal. My Grandmothers and Great Grandmother shared many of the tales with me. Fact is respiratory and cardiac difficulties dramactically increase during the inversions. There are medical facilities up and down the Wasatch Front if you need verification instead of paying attention to what your eyes, and nose are telling you.

Just because something was once worse doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. Done doing my bit to keep health care costs down now.

[Sailor]

Point is/was that we are making progress. Sure it's slow, and not fast enough for Rocky Anderson and the Sierra Club, but progress is being made nonetheless. And as the price of fuel continues to consume a higher and higher percentage of each persons budget, more progress toward conservation will be made. And the millions that have been wasted (used) for litigation of the Legacy Highway is money that could have been better spent somewhere, anywhere else!

[dolt]

I like you Sailor. You argue passionately. I don't know if that is 'the point' or a talking point. I do know the Salt Lake Valley is a stinking cesspool in a bowl for months at a time. And getting worse over the last several decades. Legacy Highway Parkway will do nothing to improve a failing urban model.

Don't stick up for the bought and paid for politicians in either party. Hold their feet to the fire. This is not a sports event where fans root for their team. The average joe gets played in a game called 'divide and conquer.'

[Sailor]

Well, Dolt, I like you to, infact, I like everyone here, except for the people I don't. (LOL).
But you say... "And getting worse over the last several decades." My argument is that statement is wrong. It is NOT getting worse, it's getting better. And it's getting better on strict numbers, not just getting better adjusting for growth. I have lived here since 1955, and it's much better than it was when you could taste the sulphur from the smelter.

We measure it more now than we used to. We know more about the harmfull effects than we used to, and we certainly talk about it more now than we used to, but it's better than it was, inspite of the nearly doubling of the population in the past 20 years.

(edited for grammar and clarity).

[dolt]

I have lived here since 1954 so I win the endurance test!

[grimbasement]

To be clear, the problem with the Legacy Highway (Parkway) was the typical good ol' boys mentality. "We don't need no durn enviiiromen'al stuhdy."

I am not anti Legacy but at the same time how useful can a road be that is less than 2 miles from the existing freeway? Guaranteed once the road is built we will find that it will do very little to alleviate congestion. The only thing that will help in the long term is moving from Single Occupancy to High Occupancy and better public transportation.

As far as those that claim teh air is better now than in the past. I have a fact and an anecdote. The fact is a good friend of mine is a civilian that works at Hill Airforce Base doing air quality studies. She told me that particulate matter along the Wasatch Front is worse than it is in Los Angeles. The clarification that she made was that L.A has higher levels of carginogens but there is more "stuff" floating in our air here than there is there. The polutants here are more dust and organic matter but dust and organic matter still irritates eyes and lungs..

The anecdote I have is that I moved here from the Bay Area 10 long years ago. Within 2 years I developed chronic moderate asthma and have lost 25% of my lung capcity due to scarring from poor air quality and allergens and that is from my doctor. Those that have always lived in this soup have little idea what it is really like to be able to breathe fresh(er) air.

Utah has little to crow about when it comes to environmental policy.