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Post by SamSpade on Apr 2, 2003 14:43:16 GMT -5
Last night, I was sitting with a speaker on each ear and noticed.... Most of the valley's stations have good separation even though I don't (normally) notice, due to further distance from the speakers/lack of music that takes advantage of channel separation. However. . . what is wrong with: 1. KUDD/KMDG 2. KJQN (translator) 103.1 3. KWKD 4. KURR (translator) 99.1 5. KVFX (translator) 98.3 6. KZHT (translator) 97.5 7. KUUU Is this something with the nature of translators and boosters that they lose the wonder of good stereo? Please enlighten me. Thanks!  |
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Post by Agent86 on Apr 2, 2003 15:29:59 GMT -5
I could explain it to you, but it would take entirely too long. It would be much better if an Engineer were around.
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Post by Friend Lee on Apr 2, 2003 23:56:34 GMT -5
Remember in the Micheal Keaton movie "Multiplicity" where "Steve" (I believe the main character's name was) cloned himself? Then the clone made a copy of himself and that clone did likewise. But just like after a couple of dubs on a tape deck with worn heads, it was like making a Xerox of a Xerox. The final clone was pretty dense; took to eating shaving cream and the like....and he was named "Doug". Same thing with translators.
As you know, translators receive a signal from off-the-air, accepting all interference and then rebroadcast it on a different frequency. Recall also that translators are (supposed to be) on the fringe of reception or perhaps even a little beyond it. Or in the case of KUSU-FM/KUER-FM, a translator network of each one daisy-chained to the next and so on. All good elements of audio signal degradation. Even though the 19kHz pilot tone may be strong and the rf signal solid, if the received audio signal is weak, so will be the re-broadcast audio signal.
In order to alleviate part of that problem, KUSU-FM is experimenting with relaying the signal via satellite to each translator rather than relying on receiving the signal from the next nearest translator.
Of course, if your favorite station processes the HUD out of the signal, stereo seperation can and does go right out the window. Moreso if you're listening to it via translator. Of course, if the right channel sounds just about like the left......
Best separation test of all time....listen to the Doobie Brothers "Black Water" during the vocal part at the end. If you can't tell the right channel from the left, something is definitely wrong
Just my two cents worth....
Friend Lee
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Post by x on Apr 3, 2003 1:14:34 GMT -5
FWIW, I agree with everything Lee just said.
I'll add something else too. The overall crappy sound of the KJQ 103.1 translator (separation being just one part of the issue) is why I'm turning more to The End these days. I think KJQ has a slight edge musically with me, but it sounds just so awful....
Could an engineering type point me to the requirements for how a translator has to be fed? I know direct off air and satellite are acceptable, but what else is?
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Post by x on Apr 4, 2003 1:38:23 GMT -5
I had KJQ's translator on for a bit tonight. For a few minutse, the highs were coming in pretty clearly and I could hear good separation. Then it seemed to disappear. Maybe it was an atmospheric fluke that allowed a slightly better than normal reception from the primary. If I was an optimist, I'd think they were reading this board and trying to fix it.
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Post by SamSpade on Apr 4, 2003 11:19:48 GMT -5
I noticed the same last night. Hopefully it can start to always sound like that!
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Post by Doh on Apr 4, 2003 14:03:46 GMT -5
It is illegal to "daisy chain" translators, recent FCC rules only permit translators to operate if they can pick it up from the original signal or a satellite  |
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Post by Friend Lee on Apr 4, 2003 20:36:58 GMT -5
If that is a recent rule change, KUSU and KUED are probably grandfathered since they have been doing the state-wide network thing since before 1983. That might explain KUSU's experimentation; both to improve the quality of the input signal and to meet the new regs.
Friend Lee
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Post by x on Apr 5, 2003 1:08:10 GMT -5
I know that originally you couldn't even do satellite feeds, but that was added mostly for the benefit of spread out states like Nebraska. "Networks" like K-Love have bastardized it.
Meanwhile, KJQ's translator sounds like crap again. I was going to suggest that they might want to feed it off KMXU, but them realized that their Provo booster sounds like crap too. Maybe this will all go away if the 100.7 main moved out by where KWKD, KPKK, and KOTB are going to be.
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Post by Trying on Apr 6, 2003 0:18:44 GMT -5
KZHT's 97.5 is not "daisy-chained" and receives a direct composite signal from the processor. If you're not receiving it in stereo, it's probably because your receiver is "blending" the stereo (even thought the light is on) due to weak signal.
Many modern radios switch to a pseudo-mono mode when they receive a weak signal to prevent static.
Drive up to Copperton and I can guarantee that you will get great stereo separation on 97.5.
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Post by x on Apr 6, 2003 5:22:28 GMT -5
Drive up where?
The 97.5 translator (K248AK) looks like it up on Farnsworth.
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Post by Trying on Apr 6, 2003 14:26:01 GMT -5
It's on Nelson Peak, on the Rock 99 tower.
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CDJ16
Construction Permit
Posts: 8
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Post by CDJ16 on Apr 7, 2003 18:33:48 GMT -5
The 97.5 Translator is directly fed from the station itself, because I remember, ZHT's STL Frequency is the same as KSOP's STL's but with switched polarity. Both pointing up to the hills. I dont know if anybody remembers, but a few months ago somebody screwed up somewhere and switched the polarity of ZHT so that they were fighting with KSOP, and when KSOP shut off to find out who it was, ZHT came in loud and clear on 104.3, I thought it was funny
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Post by x on Apr 8, 2003 0:19:32 GMT -5
That's the kind of thing that gets you in trouble with the Funny Cookie Company real quick. Now if it was an accident, fine. If it was intentional, the culprits deserve to lose at least their STL frequency license. Let them feed over a 3k POTS line. Now THAT'S funny.
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Post by x on Apr 8, 2003 0:23:21 GMT -5
About that 97.5 translator. It does sound like crap.
Now for the rest of the story.
In the interest of research (since I really don't like the music ZHT plays anyway), I popped on 97.5 as I was passing though Salt Lake this afternoon. It's got a bit of separation, but noticeably less than the 94.9 primary. Less frequency response too, though that's less noticable. Sorry.
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